[Lestat]

Another update.

I have done the compression test.

The results were as follows:

Cylinder 1 - 125psi plus minus 1,2psi
Cylinder 2 - 125psi plus minus 1,2psi
Cylinder 3 - 125psi plus minus 1,2psi
Cylinder 4 - 125psi plus minus 1,2psi

Then i have added a teaspoon of oil to each cylinder and re run the tests:

Cylinder 1 - went up to 135psi
Cylinder 2 - went up to 145psi
Cylinder 3 - went up to 145psi
Cylinder 4 - went up to 145psi

Following that I have added further 2 teaspoons of oil to Cylinder 4 only and run another test - this time 150psi.

I have also found that Cylinder 4 spark plug was fouled as compared to other 3 which looked clean to me.

What does it all mean?

Any comments would be highly appreciated.

Is 125psi too low compression?

All Cylinders built up the compression fairly quickly within 3-4 'cranks'.

Is the fact compression changes when oil added indicate the piston rings are worn?

Please advise as considering selling the car if piston rings fecked....

Regards.

 

[Blunder]

What happens when you take the oil cap off when the engine is idling? Is there smoke? On diesels you expect some white ish smoke as they run on compression and ring bypass is expected, plus thats why the engine oil turns black within 5 minutes of a change. But on petrols you should only be able to feel the engine breathing!
You've stated that cyclinder 4 has fouled spark plug. Could be worth removing the intake manifold off and inspect the valve. Could be a buggered valve seal or cracked head but then again you would expect smoke on startup! Are you sure there is no visable oil leaks! Any oil round the gearbox?

 

[Tembo11]

Another update.

I have done the compression test.

The results were as follows:

Cylinder 1 - 125psi plus minus 1,2psi
Cylinder 2 - 125psi plus minus 1,2psi
Cylinder 3 - 125psi plus minus 1,2psi
Cylinder 4 - 125psi plus minus 1,2psi

Then i have added a teaspoon of oil to each cylinder and re run the tests:

Cylinder 1 - went up to 135psi
Cylinder 2 - went up to 145psi
Cylinder 3 - went up to 145psi
Cylinder 4 - went up to 145psi

Following that I have added further 2 teaspoons of oil to Cylinder 4 only and run another test - this time 150psi.

I have also found that Cylinder 4 spark plug was fouled as compared to other 3 which looked clean to me.

What does it all mean?

Any comments would be highly appreciated.

Is 125psi too low compression?

All Cylinders built up the compression fairly quickly within 3-4 'cranks'.

Is the fact compression changes when oil added indicate the piston rings are worn?

Please advise as considering selling the car if piston rings fecked....

Regards.

from TIS disc ~compression ration is 10:1 so nominal max around 145 psi. Given that there'll be loss past inlet valves / manifold wouldn't think 125 psi too bad especially as all very nearly same
That the oil added made them all increase by a similar amount is good though might show slight sticking of rings with No 1 (It adds a hydraulic film between ring and bore). That 1 teaspoon showed an increases probably means rings are not too bad ~What mileage has engine done?
Plug No 4 fouling could be the plug itself (how old) or even could be spray pattern of the injectors

 

[jimblob2]

Blue smoke of death

I was on my way to buy my fuel system cleaner as the tank needed filling. Whilest sat at the 4th set of red lights in Malvern Link, they turned green I pulled away and in my rear view mirror was a cloud of blue smoke

When I say cloud, it was like the smoke screen on the Spyhunter game (from my youth) and it was proper blue. It has never done that before and it did not do it again afterwards. I carried onto Halfords and got some Wynns fuel system cleaner and put that in.

I fear it wont be long before my engine lets go

I did check the oil after the cloud but there was no real change in level

 

[Lestat]

First of all, thanks for the feedback on the issue.

@Blunder

I am positive that at idle there is no smoke coming out of the oil cap. However after longer trip the cap is steaming, rather than smoking. I would imagine once at operational temp and longer trip this would be expected though?

The inside of valve cover seems to covered in cack/oil as looking through oil filler cap - may be just deposits accumulated over 90k miles or in fact proof of some seal/gasket problem.

The inlet manifold is coming off again-first to check how much crap is in it after 400 miles, second of all to check the PCV valve- shame i have not done it before as it took me half a day to take off and clean the inlet manifold last time
I wish i had spare £400 quid and replace that silly plastic inlet manifold with proper item of Burton Power More compact, more power and easier to work around

If PCV valve stuck open then that would quite easily explain loss of oil... Somehow though i know i am not going to be that 'lucky'
As the PCV valve is getting replaced for brand spanking new the system is also getting Oil catch can in line so to truly appreciate how much gunk is coming out of PCV valve over time- will report on it when time comes.

There are NO obvious leaks anywhere, including gearbox area. I think i have checked all possible leak points: Crank seal, sump plug, oil filter, valve cover, head gasket area, engine in general.

I have had a Cougar V6 with oil leak around crank seal and i know how the engine bay looks like when there is oil seeping through seals- it is not clean to say at least
Mine is SPOTLESS.

@Richard G

I am not afraid of numbers and maths so could you kindly clarify how you calculate PSI knowing the compression ratio, please?

As there was not feedback to my last post for long time i have done extensive research on the topic all over internet. I have found similar statements to yours so i guess that fills me with a bit of confidence the piston rings are OK apart from teh fact they may be sticking and passing some oil due to millage on the engine - 90k.

90k is not a lot but if person before me was not looking after car properly than anything is possible...

The spark plugs are relatively brand new- 3 months old.
Fitted correctly and tightened to correct torque etc.

I am planning to service injectors as soon as i stop the oil leak. After that will replace the spark and see what happens...

Things to do next:

1. Get full gasket set. Replace valve cover gaskets.
2. Build valve spring compressor and replace all valve stem seals with head still in place. Asses the condition of valve train.
3. Get Engine Cleaner and flush engine. Get petrol additive and flash whole petrol delivery system.
4. Replace engine oil with 5w-40. Same viscosity when cold but denser when hot to slow down leaks past rings.
5. Replace PCV valve + install oil catch can.

I am off for business trip for two weeks but will update on progress as soon as i am back!

Regards.

 

[Lestat]

@jimblob2

Sorry to hear you are still having problems with your engine.

I would suggest as a matter of urgency carry out the compression test!

Get one of those:

PETROL ENGINE AUTOMOTIVE COMPRESSION TESTER KIT DUAL SCALE GUAGE - TWO ADAPTORS | eBay

You do not need anything else! This will work with your engine!

DO not be afraid - the procedure is dead easy! Email me if you need more guidance but follow manual that comes with compression tester and you will be fine!

You will save a lot of money as compared to your local garage and you will know what is going on with your engine.

It does however sound like piston rings with the amount of smoke you mentioned.
That would be BAD as it means proper engine strip - easy to do yourself if you have some basic tools, patience, time and garage I lack the last two

However if compression comes out OK then it is 'only' valve stem seals and that is very easy job to do plus you do not have to take the head off.

Good luck with the engine!

Update if any new info or progress, please!

Regards.

 

[jimblob2]

What happens when you take the oil cap off when the engine is idling? Is there smoke? On diesels you expect some white ish smoke as they run on compression and ring bypass is expected, plus thats why the engine oil turns black within 5 minutes of a change. But on petrols you should only be able to feel the engine breathing!
You've stated that cyclinder 4 has fouled spark plug. Could be worth removing the intake manifold off and inspect the valve. Could be a buggered valve seal or cracked head but then again you would expect smoke on startup! Are you sure there is no visable oil leaks! Any oil round the gearbox?

I took the oil cap off before and after a run, no smoke was coming out. It felt like the engine was blowing air out but the cap seemed to be held by a vacuum when I took it off (and put it back on). I have no idea if this is normal but there was zero smoke cold or warm.

When I started the car there was a little grey smoke, water vapour I guess - I put my hand by the exhaust and it just felt like water and not oily. When I got back I idled it for a few minutes and revved it - no smoke.

One thought is that I park on a hill where not only does the nose point up or down but the side of the car is at an angle. Could this create problems when the car is at rest and there is not enough oil in the sump and too much down the other end?

I dont get how it can blow a massive cloud of blue smoke and then run fine for a hundred miles, i would of thought if the rings were worn it would puff all the time

 

[6LXCT]

Hi Jim,

Just a thought, have you checked the engine has the correct dipstick fitted? If somebody has fitted the incorrect one (shorter) to replace a missing item that would give some of the symptoms you describe due to the oil level being constantly too high leading to oil pick up and throwing by the crankshaft.

__________________
Regards,
Mark

53 C-Max 1.8 Zetec, 05 1.9JTD Doblo Active, '91 Escort 1.8D van, '83 ERF C series - Gardner 230.

 

[jimblob2]

I think it is the correct one but I suppose I wouldnt really know. Is yours a petrol? Dare I say - could you measure yours and we can compare our lengths!

 

[Tembo11]

@Richard G

I am not afraid of numbers and maths so could you kindly clarify how you calculate PSI knowing the compression ratio, please?

As there was not feedback to my last post for long time i have done extensive research on the topic all over internet. I have found similar statements to yours so i guess that fills me with a bit of confidence the piston rings are OK apart from teh fact they may be sticking and passing some oil due to millage on the engine - 90k.

90k is not a lot but if person before me was not looking after car properly than anything is possible...

The spark plugs are relatively brand new- 3 months old.
Fitted correctly and tightened to correct torque etc.


Regards.

As to compression pressure

• the compression ration is the ratio of cylinder volume at Bottom Dead Centre (BDC) to that at Top Dead Centre (TDC)
• normally cylinder pressure at BDC could be expected to be close to atmospheric at 14.7 PSI (or just less due to increase in air speed as it's drawn past inlet valves)
• as volume reduces up to TDC pressure goes up so that P*V is normally approx constant
• thus at BDC 14.7 PSI * 10 volumes = at TDC ~145 PSI * 1 Volume

 

[6LXCT]

Yes same engine size, I'll check the length of the dipstick (I assume that's what you're talking about hehe!!) and let you know tomorrow, it's p***ing down here at the moment!!

__________________
Regards,
Mark

53 C-Max 1.8 Zetec, 05 1.9JTD Doblo Active, '91 Escort 1.8D van, '83 ERF C series - Gardner 230.

 

[jimblob2]

Checked my dipstick, according to the manual I do have the correct one. Ford have kindly provided pictures of the dipstick ends for the different engines and mine is the pointy ended Duratec one. My length is 466mm from the bottom of the yellow handle to the tip.

 

[6LXCT]

Hi Jim,
That's interesting, mine measures 20 9/16" (that's approx 522mm) from the flange at the bottom of the ring pull to the pointed tip. Mine is definitely correct as I measured the amount of oil it took to fill when I did a change the other day.

It took near enough exactly what the manual says - 3.9 - 4.0l for the initial fill, and another 300ml or so to make up for what the filter absorbs.

Hope this helps!

__________________
Regards,
Mark

53 C-Max 1.8 Zetec, 05 1.9JTD Doblo Active, '91 Escort 1.8D van, '83 ERF C series - Gardner 230.

 

[6LXCT]

Hi Jim, how did you get on with the oil level, dipstick etc!?

__________________
Regards,
Mark

53 C-Max 1.8 Zetec, 05 1.9JTD Doblo Active, '91 Escort 1.8D van, '83 ERF C series - Gardner 230.

 

[jimblob2]

I am guessing we might have different lengths due to different engines, which engine do you have - mine is the 125BHP PFI one (QQDB i think)

Oddly enough it has stopped drinking oil again, I just dont get it! I did put Wynns fuel system cleaner and it was running nice and smooth until I got to a quarter of a tank. Just refueled with Shell V-Power and its running real nice again. So 330 miles with no oil loss or smoke. I am now scratching my head - maybe the engine is very dirty?!

 

[6LXCT]

Yes maybe they are different, mine is CSDB I think.

__________________
Regards,
Mark

53 C-Max 1.8 Zetec, 05 1.9JTD Doblo Active, '91 Escort 1.8D van, '83 ERF C series - Gardner 230.

 

[jimblob2]

Well it has drunk some more oil, about 250ml over 300 miles. What is really odd, hardly any smoke but I arrived at the same set of lights in Malvern a further two times and the car smoked when pulling off. It dont smoke anywhere else just this one set of lights - grey smoke now rather than the blue and smaller puffs now.

@Lestat have you sorted your engine out yet, what were your findings?

 

[Lestat]

Hi there

I have had no time to look into the issue...

To be honest when i saw the prices of petrol when i came back from 2 week business trip outside uk i was gobsmacked...

what is the point to fix the car if next week i will be paying for daily commute as much as for a bus ticket?

jokes aside, i am slowly collecting parts and tools.

first. i need to make valve spring compressor and only then i will start...

check out this thread for some clues

http://www.3si.org/forum/f58/make-your-own-valve-spring-compressor-15-a-217700/index18.html

i will however provide detailed guide granted the fix will work

best regards

 

[jimblob2]

I think my engine is staring to get better. I have been filling it with Super unleaded, mainly Shell V-Power and the car is running powerful and smooth. I had the car serviced in December about 1000 miles ago and the level has only dropped from max to half way.

I am guessing the car had got too coked up and the seals or rings were badly carbonised so not sealing very well. I have heard of the Volvo/Mithsubishi engines getting coked up if you didnt have frequent fills of Super.

I will keep you all posted.

PS Lestat did you ever do your engine repair?

 

[jimblob2]

I spoke too soon, checked my oil at the weekend - it had dropped to minimum and it was sounding a bit gruff. Topped up about 250ml of oil which took the level to the middle point (didnt want to overfill). It seems to be less than before though, so maybe the better fuel is cleaning the top of the engine up.

With the engine sounding quieter I have noticed an odd noise when accelerating, it sounds like an increase in air from somewhere - it is not speed related, the sound is proportional to engine rev speed. It sounds like when a turbo hose goes but I have a 1.8 petrol. Is it worth getting worried about?